For the many people who say everyday how great the world would be without religion and with only reason and science :
1) Why do athletes cheat with drugs? What would science and reason do to stop that?
2) Why do people get drunk? Does it make sense to ever not have your brain functioning at 100%
3) Why do people gamble? This is not reasonable yet its a multi-billion dollar industry
4) Why do people get married? Is marriage reasonable. Shouldnt we just procreate with anyone we find attractive
5) How can science stop war? Didnt Noble invent dynamite because he thought it would.
6) Isnt it reasonable and logical to steal from the rich to give to the poor? Why not?
7) Are there any human nature problems that science or reason has ever solved?
If there science has made wonderful drugs to cure many things, why do people in third world contries still suffer with curable diseases? Is this reasonable?
My point - Science and reason can only accomplish but so much in this world
Arlene
Tags: Brain Functioning, Drugs, Many People
I suggest you think about these questions yourself. Obviously religion isn’t helping any!
It all comes down to ETHICS, not morals.
give it a rest. i can tell by some of your statements that you like to judge people’s actions, which isn’t condoned by any religion.
One question:
How many innocent people have been imprisoned, tortured, and/or murdered in the name of “god”?
what has religon accomplished?
And apparently religion can’t accomplish much more since all the things you mention still exist despite thousands of years of religious dogma…
You are right. Science cannot determine morality. It can only allow us to know what is and isn’t possible. Reason also needs some assumptions to work with to decide moral questions. On the other hand, religion hasn’t done a very good job either, now has it? The problem is that humans try to get the ‘best deal’ rather than developing a good society. The trick is to make the two the same.
no one said the world would be perfect without religion. science may not be able to stop war but education of other peoples culture and history has a good chance of doing just that, where as religion has.
and with all these you did not give one reason why religion is a good thing,
i’m not an atheist by the way
We’ve had 2000 years of christianity/judaism/ilsam and what has that gotten us?
bravo my man
tru tru
Science is an ever changing theoretical cycle that keeps cash in scientists pockets as long as its consumers are sick and keep getting worse
I mean if America really have all these science and researching tools? how come they still havent found a cure for cancer? but money still keeps comin in.
Your fallacy, besides assuming religion is a panacea for all ethical questions, is ignoring reasonable attempts to solve ethical problems. There are plenty of approaches, which may or may not appeal to normative values. How else would we get these except through reason?
By asking the scientific method to solve ethical questions, you’re asking the wrong question and falling for the is/ought fork. Science is the study of natural phenomena. Not all of human behavior is natural, but it does not follow from that that anything is supernatural.
1. Who cares?
2. Only religious people see anything wrong with alcohol. It’s fun when taken in moderation.
3. You’re right; gambling is not reasonable. Yet, you ask how applying science and reason can stop it….
4. Our species is more or less monogamous. It’s not the only species like that. Marriage has been around longer than religion.
5. War is an ethical question. There are plenty of answers to war that don’t involve religion, though. That’s why we have philosophy.
6. Maybe, maybe not. Again, that’s an ethical question. That’s for a philosopher or an economist, not a priest.
7. Yes.
8. They suffer because they are poor, and because getting medicine over is difficult. Also, keeping those who make more drugs in business is complicated, since researching drugs is extremely expensive.
science is a tool to observe nature
Why do pastors and ministers and priests do the following?
1. Use drugs?
2. Get drunk (Even Noah did this)
3. Gambe (cast lots)
4. Didn’t that guy whats his face, judah, mate with a harlot to breed perez, and isnt perez in matthew 1.3? so doesnt it benefit us when people mate with attractive people?
5. inspire troops to go into war
6. drive cadilacs
7. ok, well some pastors are kinda good with helping out married couples
8 - ok this is silly, you asked why can’t they cure incureable diseases, do priests pastors or nuns do this?
1) A damn site more than Religion does to stop it; 2) Alcohol is often a RESPONSE to religion; 3) Gambling is often justified by Divine Providence–you do the math; 4) Marriage is a social convention, not just a religious one–and why not, anyway?; 5) Religion has CAUSE more war than anything else. What do you think this fuferal in the Middle East is all about, anyway?; 6) Actually, that was a moral decision, not a logical one. Logic would dictate that no one needs more than anyone else, excepting for medical problems; 7) Many human nature problems have been explained, and therefore made treatable, by science;
This is a matter of politics, which have less than nothing to do with logic or science.
I’m not saying there is no value to spirituality in the world, but having organized religion is worse than not having it.
only science can answer that goodluck
1.To win but what does religion do to stop that?
2.It tastes nice it’s just when people abuse it.
3.It’s fun can’t beat a bit of gambling.
4.To be with someone they love it’s a political thing involving the sharing of wealth and property.
5.Most wars are about religion so get rid of religion get rid of war.
6.Money is a reward for doing well in society you don’t like being poor get up and do something about it.
7.Knowledge gained from science has benefited everybody greatly without science you would still be sat in a cave.
8.The drugs aren’t available in the 3rd world. No it’s not reasonably really but there isn’t much that can be done about it.
My point-Science and reason can accomplish many things in this world but religion keeps standing in the way. Get rid of religion and society will improve greatly.
Say no to jesus.
All good points - and shall I also point out that religion has also FAILED To cure these ills???
1)Why do athletes cheat with drugs? You telling me that religion would stop that?? Remember that when youre reading about Mr. Jackson and his Jesus Juice, eh??
People in 3rd world countries lack the monetary power to purchase drugs to fight disease. Is it fair that your faith only provides aid to those that agree to swallow the Message of God?? And, its not science’s falut for people being greedy…and greed is the only reason 3rd world countries dont get free medications….because it costs billions to research and make those drugs. But I see that your religion has done wonders for greed too….
2)Since when is being dunk unreasonable?? Are you telling me that Chiristians never drink? two words MEL GIBSON.
3) Gambling is a multimillion dollar biz…sounds reasonable to me….
4)People get married BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS PERVADED SOCIETY. Marriage is a religious concept!
5)Science cannot stop war - but can you name one war that STARTED because of science?? I cannnot. But I can name 90% of the wars fought within recent history, and they all started over RELIGION.
6)Yes, that is very logical. But your faith steals from the poor and hordes it in the Vatican….that makes a lot of sense too, doesnt it??
7)Are there any human nature problems that religion has solved? Didnt think so.
My point - that your religion has accomplished even less than science has.
And to Ivy - you are truly idiotic. If God is so powerful, how come prayer hasnt cured cancer??????????
The very fact that you ask those (and other) questions justifies reason and science. You can also find the answers to your questions in religion, but typically, they will be wrong answers.
1) I know so many catholics back in high school who used steroids to win provincial championships. I also happen to know a lot of catholics now who smoke up.
2) The same catholics I just mentioned gets drunk all the time as well.
3) My parents are ******** catholics and yet, they gamble from time to time. Summary of the first three points: hypocrates.
4) ….Yeah, I wish it would be that sweet, I really do….
5) Religion itself causes wars. Crusades come to mind, and take any one of the wars that’s going on now (Israel vs. Lebanon and Palestine for one).
6) Yeah, but people are greedy and retarded.
7) You have got to be kidding me. If you can actually read, you’ll find that they’re less than five, max ten years away from a cure for Parkinsons. And look at all the other accomplishments it’s done. We understand chicken pox and scurvy more than we have back in the 1700s. And those are just the small fish in the disease pool. Without medical science, we wouldn’t be able to do anything about cancer.
People in third world countries are still suffering because they don’t have money. That’s why they’re called “third world countries.” I do agree that it’s not reasonable, but look at your sixth point.
My point - wake up and live in reality.
1: Who says religious people don’t cheat with drugs?
2: Relax, people get drunk for the wrong reasons no matter what their faith is. Look at Mel Gibson!
3: Gambling isn’t a bad thing, you can win money, it’s like any other game, who cares about money, it’s just an object. If we play with peanuts it’s just as fun.
4: Marriage started not as a religious thing, but as a way to claim land.
5: Nobel invented dynamite for mining, not war, that’s why he created the Nobel prize. People used dynamite in war and that made him mad, so he made a prize for people who could use science to better the world. It’s not science that people say could stop war, it’s just that a lot of wars have been started over religion, and without that religion those wars wouldn’t have occur ed.
6: Stealing is something that is often observed in nature. An ape will steal from another ape, but not one within it’s own group. So stealing is a biological tendency, with no religious influences until; we learn that we sometimes need to explain our actions. So sometimes it’s alright, I can steal bread to feed my starving family because biologically, I need that food. But I wont steal a car because biologically, I don’t need it!
7: Human nature problems? I don’t know what you mean, please clarify.
8: That’s more of a political thing, how is believing in god going to get penicillin to Ethiopia?
Science and reason are the future of our existance, religion has a lot to teach us aswell, but I don’t think we need to base our entire lives on one theory, why can’t we all live in harmony?
1) For the same reason that christians do, for no reason other than personal gain.
2) For the same reason that christians do, for personal reasons
3) For the same reason that christians do, for personal reasons
4) For the same reason that christians do. Marriage ties you down to one person, so you can procreate without the threat of disease, etc. Also, for personal comforts.
5) Science may not stop a war, but religious bigotry sure starts them
6) Stealing is never logical.
7) The bible has caused more problems with human nature than science ever could.
It is not reasonable at all. What has this to do with atheism?
Your point–absolute garbage, but thanks for the 2 points
1) You mean the Athletes who get down on one knee and thank god for their victory?
Science catches them by detecting the drugs.
No, but that isn’t about science: it’s about politics and greed.
2) People get drunk for lots of reasons, usually escapism. And no, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to numb the brain.
3) Some people have money to spare, and find it enjoyable to take a chance with it. Others are addicts who should stop.
4) Marriage offers children a support structure. it isn’t the only one, but it is well-known.
5) Still working on that one. In a sense, it has. Nuclear War is so terrible it has yet to occur since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But war can be fought with sticks and stones, so it’s not easy to tame. And just how many wars were fought for religion? None were fought for science.
6) Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.
7) ever read anything on psychology: Schizophrenia isn’t possession by demons. lots of other examples on that topic.
Your point: agreed. But it is accomplishing more and more as time goes on.
after reading every ones comments and answers about this subject i believe there are too many angles you can approach this topic from, therefore we will never truly get the definitive answer we are all searching for.
Why are atheists being so negative towards Christians? Can science and reason cure that? Oh I know how science and reason can cure that:
1 aethist + that 1 chance that you had to accept Jesus = 2 reasons you just might see yourself sliding down on a grease pole to……………………………….heaven maybe??? NO, I think not.
I pray that God has mercy on your souls.
1) Develop better testing methods. If the athlete is caught once they are gone.
2) I personally do not drink. People mainly get drunk in social situations. Few are alcoholics. They do this to “fit in.” Call it peer pressure if you will. Some actually like the feeling, it is rather relaxing if done in moderation.
3) People gamble because they can. They like the thrill of having a chance to win! America is ruled by the almighty dollar, the more you have the more powerful you are.
4) Marriage in my opinion, is unreasonable. Who says you need a piece of paper to prove that you love someone and that you are devoted wholely to them?
5) Science can stop war by giving FACTS. If you study history, you will see that nearly all the wars in history have in one way shape or form, been caused by a religious view.
6) Yes it is. Everyone deserves a fair shake. At heart, most people are caring and giving. Only when a belief comes into play, do those people become greedy and arrogant. There are some who make decisions that put them in the situations they are in. That doesn’t however mean that we don’t help them when they need it.
7) What problems are there? This question is not specific. Humans are animals and have animal tendancies. This is why we have countries (territory), kings and presidents (pack leaders) and enjoy hunting (feed). Study sociology please.
Because there are to many greedy drug companies mostly supported by the fundamentalist right. Is it reasonable? No. But hey, like i said before, America is greedy for the almight dollar.
If these questions were used to try and stray anyone from being an atheist, they were very poor questions. Religion answers absolutely nothing. It gives those with weak minds an opportunity to survive. It gives meaning to things that weak people cannot find the answer to, or choose not to.
More people have died in the name of religion than anything else.
Science cannot stop people who want to kill each other because they think their god is better.
Also remember that the church imprisoned and put scientists to death during the middle ages. The same early scientists who were mapping the human body through anatomy that we use today.
Do christians go to the doctor? Then you are using science not faith. Do christians get a flu shot? Then you are using science through evolution as the flu virus evolves each year and the vaccine has to be changed. So you use science all the time. Right now on your computer.
1 they cheat becuse they dont like to lose
2 they drink because they like to get drunk
3 they gamble because they like the thrill
4 they get married to prove devotion
5 no one will stop war because no one wants to share
6 the rich should just give to the poor
7 most of the question u asked are results of human nature their is no cure
8 dont blame science and reason because the medicines and technology are there blame the governmenets who wont share them.
p.s. science and reason gave u the means to ask stupid questions to everyone in the world. and now you know the world isnt flat.
Next time, why not just call the Dr. Phil Show & get paid for appearing as his guest & then you’ll get a PROFESSIONAL OPINION & EVALUATION. Science & Reason cannot & should not be compared to Religion & Atheism in a way that would have any useful meaning in solving the problems you have mentioned!
1) Science would stop drug cheats it if it was impossible to cheat without getting caught.
2) People get drunk (other than those with a drinking problem) because they enjoy the sensation and the sense of liberty, or they want to escape from the realities of life for a moment.
3) Why do people gamble? Because while the chances of winning are very remote, they are infinitely greater than the chances of winning if you don’t gamble.
4) Why do people get married? Well if you look around the world you will see that increasingly so (but still a large minority) many are choosing life partners rather than married spouses. The difference is only a legal document and in many countries the rights and obligations are identical. Society has always encourages life commitments because we know t leads to a more structured society than wanton promiscuity. i.e we understand human nature.
5) How can science stop war? Only reason can stop war. Religion has far too often started a war.
6) Isnt it reasonable and logical to steal from the rich to give to the poor? ‘Steal’ is your prejorative word. I prefer ‘take’. Yes it is logical, which is exactly why we have governments to do just that…..and by and large….they do!
7) Are there any human nature problems that science or reason has ever solved? Like Greed, rage, avarice, sloth etc? Reason is usually the answer to all of those problems. However, not everyone is open to reason and quite often are obfuscated by the ‘theists’ who seek to absolve responsibility and place it on a higher power.
Some of those questions deal with ethics not science. First, athletes will use drugs for competitive edge no matter the belief system involved. And for some they will even thank a deity after winning even though they know they’ve cheated so theology hasn’t done much to curb that either.
Second, anyone gets drunk.. it has nothing do with belief system. If religion kept that under control Mel Gibson wouldn’t have been arrested endangering society this past weekend in California. However, most people despite belief system know it is unethical to drink and drive.
Why do people gamble.. I actually wouldn’t know first hand why because I don’t gamble.. never been to a casino, never played bingo and don’t buy lottery tickets. However, I think most people like games of chance and I know plenty of people with religious beliefs gamble just as many non believers do.
Everyone has a differrent reason for marriage. For some they want to be with one person that tjeulove and it makes more sense for their finances to be joined legally. I married first for love but know marriage was in best legal interests because my husband is from another country.
Only people will stop war… not bombs, not theology. There have been theological reasons for war and there have been non theological reasons for war. War will stop when acceptence of differences come along and that is a change in societal thinking.
Stealing is wrong.. even we atheists know that. However, it is not wrong to change the political structure to make socio-economics more even in concerns of what percentage an income group pays for taxes.
Ask a psychiatrist that question and see the answer you get. Psychiatry is a science and they have helped many people in many ways over the years.
No it is not reasonable for humans to suffer. However, at least in America Pharmeceuticals are not a “savior” they are big business. The drugs can only be available to everyone readily and plentifully when profit margins aren’t the main concern.
(sorry if there are mispelled words.. spellcheck doesn’t seem to be working)
Some Athletes cheat by taking artificial testosterone because there are some athletes who produce an overabundance due to a genetic defect. I know many Christians who drink and gamble to excess. I think we get married because religion has made it the only legal way to have access to benefits. There are also a lot of Christians who procreate at will as well. All the current wars in progress are based on religious differences. Most humans are inherently lazy or they would be rich as well. In America you are what you make of yourself. We have developed my different drugs that control various undesirable human natures. People in third world countries have diseases but it is not because of science. I can reason through all of the above and can state without any a doubt that a scientific world would be much better than the world we had when Christianity abounded during the Dark Ages.
Many of these are ethical moral questions. But seriously how does theology help to solve any of these things. They are not born of Atheism, or science. They are simply problems that need to be dealt with.
This is about the most un-thought out question that I have ever read.
1. What do athletes have to do with science, anything can be abused weather you are an atheist or not. You have to take responsibilities for your own actions in this world or face the consequences.
2. I have a drink every now and then, what is your point? What does this have to do with religion, as long as you don’t over do it. You have to take responsibility for your own actions or face the consequences.
3. It is not reasonable to gamble, but it is reasonable to understand why it happens. We all take risk in life, it is what life is about. It is when you over do it when it becomes a problem.
4. Marriage is logical, a child should have a stable home life to be a productive person in this world. Marriage is safe and just because you are not religious who says that you can not love someone and want to be with that person for the rest of your life.
5. Science can easily stop war, if we had poured more money into the star wars program that Reagan started, all of this crap going on in the middle east would not be happening. The starwars program was all about missile interception, before they hit their targets.
6. We steal from the rich and give to the poor everyday, it’s called taxes.
7. Of course there are problems that science and reason has solved, it’s called medication and jail. A lot of meds are given to people with mental problems. Jail, well if you can’t play fair then you go to jail.
8. People suffer in third world countries because their government is not getting off of their ***** and doing something about it.
My point is that the human race is still a child race. We are ever growing and changing, to stifle that with religions dark age beliefs would be the dumbest thing you could do. Maybe you should read about some of the things that took place back in the dark ages, when science was outlawed for almost 100 years, you might be signing a different tune. If we don’t learn from our past we will be doomed to repeat it, let us not fall back into the dark ages please, that was not a pretty time at all.
1) The problem here is the pressure over athlets and/or the need some athletes have to be on first places. Science can do a lot of things creating medicines with no prohibited subtsances. but the responsability is on athletes and coaches, because they are the persons that must do things right from the beginning. It a matter of ethics.
It’s not reasonable, but meanwhile we don’t help organizations that make programs for vaccines or treatments, that will continue.
2) Alcohol creates a natural drug called dopamin that makes you feel right, and some people finds in alcohol a momentary happines or relaxation. Another reason is the need of some people to probe the limits of the body.
3) gamble is a cuestion of dopamine too, when you win, you segregate dopamine and feel fine. some persons are addict to that natural drug
4) You could have children with nay person you want. Marriage must be a commitment with other person to protect and share life. Now days is a very big mistake to get married if the couple get married. If you lucky it will work, but the most of the times it’s failure.
5) The problem are no the belic inventions. the problem are the use we give to them. some times those war inventios gives the path to a usefull invention. so, it’s not science responsabilty, is responsability of the people use that technology
6) Because steal is not the answer, but the serach of the benefit for poor and rich. Not take from the rich, but create richness for the poor. This measure takes time, but it worths.
7) Not solved, but almost always a very good approach to the problem and the solution. Because we have to repember, for a solution, sometimes a new problem emerges.
The thing is that we all want that other persons make things happened, and that’s not true, we all must do what we must from where we are. All is about to be coherent what you think, what you do, and what you ask from others.
1) Because it helps them to perform better, allowing them to make more money from contracts and endorsements. How would religion stop this problem, exactly?
Because of basic economics, I guess. The problem can be solved in the future. Is it reasonable for the Catholic Church to be against the promotion of condom use in AIDS ravaged sub-Saharan Africa?
2) The whole point is to not have your brain functioning at 100%, because that honestly can get boring sometimes.
3) I dunno, it can be fun in moderation. What’s your point?
4) Well human beings EVOLVED as social creatures who rely heavily on the family unit. Even though religion has been tied into marriage, it is not nessecary for a succesful marriage.
5) Science can’t stop war. Only humanity realizing that war is irrational can.
6)Is it ever reasonable or logical to steal anything from anybody? And should this gap even be a problem in America if all the supposed Christians followed the teachings of Jesus?
7) Ever hear of physcology or physchiatry?
1)Let’s see, athletes I see on T.V say that God is on their side or God saw them through. I am guessing there is a drug problem because they are Christians.
2)I think there are a lot of people who don‘t use 100% of their brain. In fact nobody uses 100% of his or her brain.
3)People gamble because they are idiots, but hey maybe they learned it in the Bible. Didn’t Satan and God make a bet about Job?
4)I’ll give you this one- I have know idea why people get married
5)Here’s a trite phrase from the NRA idiots. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
6)Yes, Christian charity is not what it is cracked up to be and I don’t think that has anything to do with science.
7)Yes, obsessive compulsive disorder and the like
8)Politics and God are what keep people starving; science isn’t taking the blame for that one!
Dumb point, but in Brief:
1 What does athletics have to do with science? They are totally different disciplines. Science, not faith is how drug tests are administered, and reason suggests that a real zero tolerance policy would clean it up quick.
2 Changing consciousness is very much a personal decision, and it is usually done for the entertainment.
3 Gambling is quite simply, fun. All entertainment is a Multi- billion, because it fun.
4 Marriage is a great tax write off. Very reasonable.
5 science is a much better bet than religion to stop war, as any glance at the Mideast, Ireland, Bosnia will tell demonstrate. Also ‘NOBEL’ invented TNT as an aid to construction, and founded his prizes because of the horror of its application to war.
6 Stealing is wrong. Taxing those with the most to help those with the least is much more ethical.
7 What is a problem with human nature?
8 The political power these days is very religious. In a proper meritocracy, the drugs would be distributed, and the problem solved.
My point is science and reason DOES, faith and religion TALKS ( and blows people up).
Why is it that people in the Judeo / Christian / Islamic traditions only think in terms of absolutes or black and white? Is this reasonable? Look how splintered each of these religeons are. They can’t even get along with themselves.
I would much rather trust my sences and experience in this world and continue to learn than to trust other men with what they claim to be the ultimate answer.